We’ve talked about sex scenes in the past, but it’s been a while and the subject recently came up on the Wicked Writers loop. I had credited the explosion of erotica and paranormal books in mainstream pubs to the success of these books in epubs, and I was impressed by Susan Zane’s response. Susan, who is a reader and not a fiction writer, gave me permission to quote her:
“I believe there is a higher level of eroticism in even the mainstream genres now. However it isn’t what the readers want that changed the pubs, it’s the money epubs are making that made the bigs notice. Because of the bottom-line focus, IMO they often don’t get it quite right in the books, making them too much erotica and too little romance.
The Aphrodisia line, for instance, seems saturated in sex but squanders the story, so they don’t sell as well. Perhaps that’s changed in the last year or so, I haven’t bought one since they first came out because the books bombed for me.
As a romance reader, I want heat and a strong connection between the characters, no matter what situation, time period, or universe they are in. That’s where the story lives for me; the intensity of connection I feel between the characters and TO the characters.”
I can’t remember when I last read an Aphrodesia book, so I won’t comment on that. But I agree it makes a difference when there’s an intensity of connection between the characters. Karin Tabke has that in her books. Her sex scenes aren’t tacked on. They come from the characters’ passion for each other.
Not everyone writes with Karin’s intensity. That doesn’t mean they’re bad, it just means they’re different. I recently read a book by a bestselling writer. The book was good, but the sex scenes were boring, with no passion, and the book would have been better off without them.
I write sex scenes and I like reading them, too. But if they’re the same old thing, I’d rather not have them in a book. I don’t mean the hero and heroine have to do contortions or find odd places to do it. The freshness doesn’t come from their positions, it comes from their characters. Their emotions, their passions, their fears. Just like everything else that rings true in the story.
Even in erotica the sex scenes should mean something and change something. Some shift in the character or the plot — whether it’s making the situation worse or better.
Everything that happens in a book should further the plot. Everything in a book should matter, and that includes the sex scenes.
Do you think sex scenes need to change something? That they should matter? Or is it okay with you if the sex scene just shows how hot the hero/heroine are for each other? And does a book need to have a sex scene for you to enjoy it? Even if the writer is bad at them and clearly would rather clean toilets?
Just a note to say that Zoe Winters is a finalist in the Better Sex Erotic Fiction Contest! There’s one last round of voting, so please vote for A Safer LIFE!
Edie, the question of the day is: Are you obsessed with mating critters?
This isn’t the first time you posted pics like these, young lady. When I clicked on the page and saw the lady-bug mambo, well, one of my Cheerios tried choking me.
Anyway, sex scenes are appreciated as long as they aren’t forced, as in, gratuitous. Ease me into them and I’m sweating, but when tossed in “just because” they are as welcome as a fart in church.
LOL, Edie. LOVE the ladybird pic.
I can only write love scenes that are somehow part of the plot. I tend to err on the side of too little, and recently had to go back and add a love scene, because I realized the book did need it. But even then, I stayed with the emotions, rather than the mechanics. That is just how I am, and I envy writers who write fantastic love scenes at the drop of a hat. I can’t.
So true, Edie! When I wrote my first sex scene, I was as nervous and as self conscious as any first-timer. It does get easier, but don’t plop down a scene because: 1)the line requires it, 2)they haven’t had sex and you’re already halfway through writing the story, 3)your CP’s say you need one. I could go on and on, but it is really your characters that dictate the sex, not you or a line, or anyone else. Write them with intense emotions, ala Karin T(and I SO agree with you about her.
Just thinking about her hot knights makes me want to dump dear old hubby–not really, but you get my meaning-I really want Thorin to find a Margaret. Wow, talk about a fantasy!)and the sex will come. uh, no pun intended. . . really…maybe not, I have been known to lie.
as welcome as a fart in church
Too funny, Kath! And I agree. We can tell if a sex scenes is thrown in.
I was going to put dogs doing it, but decided to go with insects and birds. Dogs are too obvious.
Hi, Edie!! Interesting post. I definitely think the sex scenes matter in a story and I like to see the emotions of the characters reflected in those scenes. Those emotions always add such a greater intensity for me. And you’re right–Karin is great.
Congrats, Zoe!!
Michelle, we have quite a few ladybugs in my house. I think they’ve been doing the ladybug dance.
Since I read the scene you mentioned — yesterday! — I can say it was awesome and didn’t feel like it was shoved in. And it wasn’t about “he put his fingers there” and “she touched him here.” We read to feel emotions, and reading your scene, I felt the intensity of your heroine’s need mixed with her confusion and even apprehension.
That’s the kind of sex scene I enjoy reading most.
Margaret, I’ve oddly always enjoyed writing sex scenes. I know some writers who hate them, but still do them well. And Karin does them very well.
Cindy, you write hot sex scenes, too. Your characters are sensual, and the emotions in your books build up to the sex scene. You definitely don’t stick them in.
lmao @ Kath.
ahem, on topic: Sex scenes should mean something. Maybe not in erotica (which is why I don’t read it) but definitely in erotic romance or romance.
I think Susan said it just right. I can handle plenty of heat in a sex scene, but when it is just pages and pages of hard this and wet that…ho-hum, yawn, flip, maybe even toss the whole book. I need the emotions for a sex scene to work.
when it is just pages and pages of hard this and wet that…ho-hum, yawn, flip, maybe even toss the whole book
Lainey, you said it much better than I did. Your voice shines through, even in your comments.
Sex scene aren’t as important as the relationship. I’ll read a book for the relationship and story, and if the sex fits in there comfortably, and doesn’t distract from the relationship, well, then it works for me. But it shouldn’t overwhelm the relationship or the story. At least for me.
Terrific blog, Edie! I have no problem writing love scenes, but they have to come from somewhere deep inside. It’s all about the emotions, and characters for me. Oddly enough, my WIP may be the first book I’ve ever written without a sex scene. We’ll see.
I’ve enjoyed many books where the intimate scenes are written in such a way you feel, but don’t get the technical aspects. Love those!
Lee, I read a Lani Diane Rich book in which the h/h were going to have sex … and she didn’t show it. It surprised me, but I liked it. The sex scene wasn’t necessary, so she left it out. Good for her!
LaD, I have to feel sex scenes too. When I write them and when I read them.
My ears were burning! Thanks for the kind words, Edie and all. Margaret? I have decided to make book 4 in the Blood Sword Legacy series Thorin’s story. The opening chapter might be of him being stalked by an Irish lass who calls herself Margaret. She’s been stalking him since MASTER OF SURRENDER. Muwhahahahaah.
Now on to topic, since sex is a natural pat of falling in love and being in love, I can’t not write it. I just blurbed a book for a friend of mine and the book was loaded with sex. Lot’s and lot’s of sex, with food. Yummy! And while there was a lot of sex, these two characters were so hot for each other after denying themselves each other for ten years, they just couldn’t keep their hands off each other. And I have to hand it to the author, she did a good job keeping it all fresh. But all of that sex fit with their longing for each other and having to make up for ten years of desire. Now if they had just met each other and spent all this time connecting? The emotion of the act would have fallen flat for me.
oh, and I voted for Zoe. She has a nice lead! Go Zoe!
YAY! I started jumping up and down when I saw your comment, Karin!! Just make her short and spunky–not psychotic, please. Yeah, not a good thing for a real person to stalk a character, though a hunky one.
*ding* Uh, oh, time for me to take my meds. . .
Karin, you crack me up. I hope you do name the character Margaret. That has a nice ring. Yay for Zoe!
Margaret, I like short and spunky too! Do it, Karin! For your short, spunky friends.
lol, but Thorin is huge! She’d only come to his knees!
Uh, this might be TMI, but my hubby is 6’3″ to my 5’1″–it works okay. If he wants to kiss me without bending over, I stand on the second or third stair.
LOL, Margaret! YAY short people is right, Edie! I’ve done the stair thing a time or two also, makes for a great aligned hug.
Hey Edie, thanks for the shout out! And this post is so appropriate for my contest, lol, since it’s erotica.
I agree with you on sex scenes. They have to MEAN something. Even in erotica it has to mean something. Why do I care about two random people boinking? We’re all so jaded, that just saying naughty words and describing sex acts isn’t going to do it for most people, either sexually or emotionally.
We have to feel something for these characters. I think especially women are wired this way. It doesn’t have to be about love, but we have to care enough about the sex to react to it in some way, besides skimming it.
Margaret and LaDonna, are you sensing a prejudice against short people?
Karin, all your heroines don’t have to be tall. Do something different and write a shorter heroine. I know you don’t write humor, but you could even lighten it up with a few humorous scenes. Short women fit with tall men where it counts. So I’ve heard.
Thanks Cindy, Karin, and Edie!
You know, if I win the popular vote but not the grand prize, I’m going to totally pull an Al Gore with this.
LOLOL Zoe, you have a way with words.
We have to feel something for these characters. I think especially women are wired this way.
Exactly. And our readers are mostly women.
Zoe, noting wrong with pulling an Al Gore. you would be the “real winner.”
Hey Edie, True. But one thing that irks me about contests with public voting is that it becomes a contest of “who can get the most votes” not necessarily whose story is the best.
It’s completely vain, but I really “do” believe my story is the best, but it would be hypocritical I think of me to change my story when things look like they’re in my favor. I have no idea what’s in the three judges’ heads and if they agree with the voting.
What I do know is, if it’s REALLY close and they can’t make up their minds between my story and another story, and my story at that time has the most votes, it’ll go in my favor. So I’m hoping to have as many votes as possible to make that decision easier.
Again, assuming it came down to me and one other story.
Zoe, beleive me, but I know about the “who can get the most votes” factor. It’s crazy. But it does give us a crash course in promo. so that’s good.
And I thought your story was excellent!
Thanks, Edie! Yeah, I agree on the crash course. It’s also kind of given me a real world image of “work put in” vs. “results.” Because I’d put in 4 or 5 hours promoting, then I’d go check the numbers and right in front of me I could see them improving as a direct result of getting out there and promoting it.
I think sometimes we think “promo doesn’t work.” But clearly it does. Though really my normal method and what I’ll be going back to after this week, is a much more subtle marketing. More of an “interacting with people” rather than a “Buy my book!!!!” “Vote for my story!!!!” “ZOMG!!!!”
And OMG I keep forgetting to mention the ladybug picture in this post. It cracks me up!
“ZOMG!!!”
Edie, Lady Tarian in MASTER OF TORMENT was ‘petite.’ )~
My 2 cents worth on the short/tall discussion: Yes, from experience (he was 6’8″, I’m 5’5″, barely), the pieces DO fit together as needed, especially if there is an extra pillow around at the critical moment for a little extra boost, so to speak. Standing – second or third stairs for us. What was interesting was that when we were sitting together, it was more like he was 6′ or 6’1″. His height was mostly in his legs (and no, he did NOT play basketball!).
Later,
Lynn
LaDonna said: “I have no problem writing love scenes”
I think this is the key difference. My characters have sex, but I don’t think of them as sex scenes. They’re love scenes. Even inspirationals have love scenes. Sure, my love scenes involve sex, but first and foremost they are about love – whether it’s already there or still developing. I think the easiest way to make sure your scenes are relevant to the characters, plot and emotions, is to think of it in terms of love and not sex. It’s semantics, yes, but in this case that small distinction makes a huge difference.
Zoe, that’s what I’m doing too. Interacting. When people only show up to say “vote for me, please” … well, I don’t always want to.
I like the ladybugs too. It’s not dirty when bugs do it.
LMFAO @ “It’s not dirty when bugs do it.” I totally want a T-shirt now, with that picture on it and that caption! hahahahahaha.
Anyway, yeah, if someone hasn’t seen your name floating around somewhere before the “vote beg” it can have less than stellar results.
Karin, I remember that about Lady Tarian. She was small but mighty.
Lynn, my husband is almost a foot taller than I am, but he’s the opposite of your 6’8 friend. He has short legs and a long torso. When we’re sitting, he’s not that much taller than I am.
My characters have sex, but I don’t think of them as sex scenes. They’re love scenes.
Liz S, so true! I’ll remembert the distinction in the future.
Zoe, you could wear that T-shirt to the next church festival in your town.
I bet you’ll be glad when the contest is over — and you’ve won the $3000.
Edie, LMAO @ the T-shirt.
OMG Edie, don’t say that about winning. Now if I don’t win I’m coming to your house and accusing you of jinxing it.
Then I’ll start talking about hanging chads.
I’m so worked up about this, because really I could win the popular vote but the judges pick one of the other stories.
I want it to be me so bad, but I just don’t know what they’ll do.
Zoe, think positive! I am. But if you want to come to my house, give me warning so i can clean.
And I know what you mean about wanting it bad. I’m sending good vibes to you.
Thanks, Edie! The thing that makes this awesome is that I know if I lose, I won’t be the only person disappointed. And if I win, I won’t be the only person excited.
Zoe, if you win I’ll be excited too. Though not as much as you.
hehe, yeah, I’ll be excited $3,000 worth.
Sorry I’m so late in weighing in here, Edie. Busy, busy, busy day yesterday.
Great blog, by the way and very appropriate. I just got done reading a book by Christine Warren where there were 79 pages … 79! … I kid you not – of sex. Granted much of it was a bondage scene but you have no idea how close that book came to hitting the wall. This was by a favorite author so I kept going, hoping it would get better. It did, but that first 80 or so pages were a total turn off as far as I’m concerned.
What I figured out is that this was a book written long before her other books came out. Some references didn’t mesh with her last five and was actually more of a prequel. So I guess Christine was in a learning curve at that point.
Was I disappointed? Somewhat. I’m just glad the rest of the book was better. However, it would have been better had she skipped about 50 of those pages and padded the rest of the story.
Liz — OMG! I couldn’t have read that. I wonder if she lost readers over that book.
Hey Edie,
Sorry to post late. Yesterday was a busy day and I didn’t get on the blog circuit. But I loved your topic and reading through it and all the comments helped me solidify where I’m going in this scene I’ll be working on today.
Thanks bunches, sweetie.
Mary Jo, no need to aplogize about anything. And, wow, glad the comments helped you. It’s amazing what sparks an idea with us.
I’m sorry you couldn’t make it to the library event last night. It was great!
Liz, wow! really? I want to read that book! What’s the name of the book.
I guess one person’s “OMFG” is another person’s “Sign me up for that!”
I also fully admit to reading the later Anita Blake books primarily BECAUSE they had become vamp and were-porn.
Zoe, you’re too funny. We like different books.
hehehe, why do you think I’m writing the more hardcore erotica under a different pen name? The things I’ll write under that name would completely alienate probably half of my paranormal romance fans. (not that that’s a giant number at this exact moment, but you know what I mean. I couldn’t write without censoring myself.)