It’s My Fantasy and I’ll . . .
October 28th, 2009 by Michelle
. . . write in deep third person POV if I want to. 
I picked up a book at the library and it looked fab. A fantasy that had all the elements I look for. And then I read it. Sigh. Why, why, why do so few fantasy writers use deep third POV? So many go for the more omniscient style, and it really makes me much less invested in the story. This fantasy was the second I’d tried in a week, I couldn’t finish either of them, even though I was really in the mood to read a fantasy.
And I wonder, am I strange for wanting to write fantasy in deep 3rd POV? Is there some unwritten fantasy rule about this? I know a few authors who’ve broken it, because I love their work. But aside from fantasy, are there any trends you can see for certain genres? I’d definitely say Urban Fantasy has cornered the first person past tense POV. YA is often first person past tense as well, although there are a few deep 3rd POV stories out there.
Most romance is deep 3rd POV, I think, and detective fiction is often deep 3rd as well. Thrillers can go either way, deep 3rd or first person past tense. I read a dectective novel by the Russian novelist Boris Akunin called LEVIATHAN where he never once went into the main protagonist’s POV. The reader saw the whole story through the eyes of those around him, never once getting inside his head. Very interesting, very daring. I loved it. But I wouldn’t have loved it in a romance. I think you have to pick your genre if you want to play like that. I think Iain M. Banks did the same thing in his novel INVERSIONS. Also loved that one!
I have one exception to my omniscient POV rule, and that is Terry Pratchett. He pulls it off because even though he is often in omniscient mode, he somehow manages to connect us to the characters at the same time through the little habits of theirs he describes. I think his trick is he really zooms in, close-up movie style, whereas the fantasy novels I’m disappointed in are too far back with that camera lens. Terry Pratchett’s humour helps, too.
So, do you write slightly differently to the norm in your genre, or have you ever tried to and didn’t like it? Do you think there is room to play, or are reader expectations not something the clever genre writer messes with?
18 Responses to “It’s My Fantasy and I’ll . . .”
Interesting subject! I like deep third myself, but starting out in omniscient can be a wonderful way to let the reader know the place and situation–and then zoom into deep POV. As you said about Terry Pratchett, like a movie lens. There isn’t just one way, and many romance writers (and contest judges) think there is.
An entire book in omniscient wouldn’t hold my attention. Though I don’t write it myself, I’m fine with reading a book in first person past tense. I can and sometimes do read first person present tense, but when they go into past perfect tense, it stops me. And each time I’m stopped, I think it would’ve been better to do it in past tense.
Edie, I quite like well done first person past tense. Never really got in to first person present – as you say, the writer runs a big risk of jerking the reader out.
And yes, I dislike those who feel there is only way to do something, and mark you down, even if the new way works. Like LEVIATHAN and INVERSIONS, sometimes doing the unexpected, if you do it really well, makes for a fresh and interesting read.
Michelle,
I love reading and writing deep 3rd person POV. I enjoy first person if done well and with the right situation. I know some readers are totally turned off by first, but I’m not one.
I’ve never really tried to write first person though I expect if I live long enough, some story will lend itself to that POV. I also expect I’ll need lots of revision and polishing if I do it as it’s not a POV I’m used to.
I should be writing but, of course, I’m blog hopping!
I’ll read almost anything, except present tense stories. For some reason, they always sound awkward to me.
Recently, I’ve started writing everything in first person past (middle grade, RS, Urban fantasy). I get deeper into the character and it allows me to use little nuances in their actions and thought processes that I didn’t feel comfortable doing in 3rd PP. If I need to head into another POV, I use third person, but my main character is always 1st PP.
Most of what I read is third person POV, of course but there’s just something about urban fantasy that seems to lend itself to the first person POV. I’ve read very few that weren’t. I’ve only tried one book in first person POV and it worked wonderfully, IMO. The UF that I’m going to try next will also be in the first person. Will I stick to this method in future books? Probably not. Particularly if it isn’t a UF.
Michelle, I think there’s always room to play!
The story I’m working on now is first person, but told through two character’s POV. I sprinkle OM in a few places as well, to widen the lens a little.
I love how an author’s style can mix and match, and if done well can truly enhance uniqueness and voice.
Deep third would be my favorite, but I like first person too. In fact, some of my favorite books have been in first person. Now that I think about it though, they are all comedy light and I rarely reread them….hmmmm.
One thing I do have a seriously hard time getting into, are books where they switch between first person and Deep third. Every time the switch is made I get knocked on my ass– I struggle to get back into the book and only to get knocked out again.
When it comes to omniscient POV it really depends. I’ve read some fantastic one that started with Onmiscient then narrowed into third person. Pamela Clare wrote one that grabbed me from the first sentence and there were pages of it– but her voice was so charming it carried it off and it really set the book up well.
The problem is that Onmiscient is so hard to do, or at least do well–so it takes a truly gifted writer to make the connection with the reader using that POV. Still, if its done well, it should be celebrated– not chided.
Like many of you, deep third is my favorite for reading and writing. I love delving deep into a character’s mind.
I don’t especially like first person past but I recall that I used to. The old Gothics did it particularly well and it does allow you to feel like you are there, to know only what the heroine knows. Probably should try re-reading a few.
I’ve generally seen first person present in literary fiction, most of which hasn’t been to my taste. I guess contact with those who stick up their noses at romance and other commercial fiction has turned me into a reverse-snob. First person present strikes me as pretentious. imho.
Forgot to say…great blog, Michele! Interesting to think about, rather than to just automatically do.
I’ve heard it said, more than once, that if a scene isn’t working, maybe it’s in the wrong person’s pov. Who has the most at stake?
Perhaps the same thing could be said for overall pov. Just a thought.
Yes, a great blog, indeed. Thought-provoking. Now back to work.
Ackecty ack! I’ll read anything in any POV so long as it’s a damn good story. Sigh, I think there is too much time wasted on pondering which POV for which genre.
Mary Jo, I was a huge Mary Stewart fan in my teens, and I’d love to write a first person past tense in homage to her style one day. I loved those books, although on re-reading one the other day, ugh. The men were so sexist.
It sounds as if you’ve found the POV / tense that suits you, Margaret. That’s wonderful.
Liz, that first person book you wrote is my personal favorite of yours. I’m looking forward to the next one
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LaDonna, I agree. We have such a flexible tool in words, don’t we?
T, I’m all for celebrating great writing, no matter what the POV. But Omniscient POV is just so hard to pull off for a whole book. Small snatches of it sometimes work really well.
I wrote a book which I made the conscious decision to stay in deep 3rd POV the whole way through, even though parts of the story would have worked in omniscient. I think I made the right decision. I wanted the reader to totally connect with the story, never feel like an onlooker, but rather be a participant.
Deb, I loved those gothics, too. When I wrote my MA dissertation (on the translation of romance fiction from English into French) I read an interesting book analyzing the popularity of gothic romances in the 70s and 80s. I read my mother’s gothics as a teenager, and it was interesting to read the academic view of those books, having been a fan.
Deb, I once did a writing exercise, where you were asked to write a scene in the villian’s POV, showing the villan as the hero, or in the right, and the hero as the villan, or acting in the wrong. I ended up using the scene in my WIP, and it was one of the highlights of the story, IMO. So yes, it is always interesting to think about these things a little, and get a new perspective.
Karin, I never thought people agonized over what POV, I must admit I always thought writers went with what felt right. My argument is that falling by rote into a ‘default’ POV for a particular genre isn’t always best for the story. Fantasy seems to have a lot of omniscient, and I just find it disconnecting. Probably because I read a lot of deep 3rd POV and have fallen in love with the intimacy of that POV. So by writing fantasy with my own preference, 3rd POV, I’m stepping out the ‘norm’. But in my view, its for the good of the story.